Ranjan Wrote: One question -- whenever you have the time to respond. How does jyotish fit into such a religious ideological framework? What would be the utility of jyotish amidst detachment and such admirably complete trust in the personal God?
Das: There is predetermination to some degree, which can be read in Jyotish, and then there is the appearance to us of free will. Although we are in God and being handled by God, we feel as if free and we feel the good and bad results of actions. So we are to trust and know the former, but fight to be the best we can be in sacrifice, service, dharma, devotion, etc., according to our propensities and nature, which is our varna.
So we have Jyotish from Vishnu. We see it works. It is hard to be "always right" with it prediction-wise, but in terms of seeing the general personality and life trends of people it's quite accurate to us. The utility of this is in navigation and understanding. The first thing Jyotish does is help you to understand yourself, your varna, your propensities and tendencies. This aids the bhakti sadhaka in accepting what God has made in himself (in the bhakta himself that is).
Once the bhakta is learning Jyotish and finding himself, he can eventually use the tool to then understand others, their natures and fortunes. This creates compassion more. Jyotish removes the personal responsibility we can place on others- it becomes hard for the bhakta jyotishi to fault anyone for anything because of seeing that they are helplessly acting under the modes of nature just as is said by the Lord in the Gita.
Thirdly then, the well seeing Vaisnava Jyotishi can then help people by advising them on their decisions in life with the aid of the eye of Jyotish. We all know that a Jyotishi can often greatly help the heart of another person. However, I think that Jyotish help comes not in the form of dodge and avoid, but accept and appreciate the meaningfulness.
I met a lady. I saw her chart. I told her watch for aids. So she went and got tested. She already had it she discovered. I then could see that is a few years Saturn would be transitting her 8th, which can be a part of a death yoga. So now should I recommend yagyas to Sani to avoid death? Rather, I talk about God and Bhakti since Bhakti is the only real solution for the mind which truly perceives the quandry and problems posed for the living being by death. Why discuss anything else? A Vaisnava Jyotishi reveals Gods hand without trying to take the power out of that hand. By helping another Vaisnava see Gods plan for them in a general way, they are helping the person to surrender. Surrender is KEY in Vaisnavism. The Jyotishis always show the future somewhat, but the Vaisnava Jyotishi then does NOT speak in terms of DODGE IT, but speaks in terms of HONOR IT. There may still be some attempt at helping a person with an energy, a ring, some advices on what to accept and what to avoid, but the mood is still one of surrender and awe for the all powerful Lord.
So firstly it increases awareness of oneself and ones karma, varna etc., which helps one immensely to find direction in a life of devotion. Then it helps one have compassion on others, then it helps one to help others. You have to remember that Bhakti creates a good feeling inside us. In the end, most often thats all we want- to feel good. So it is actually sublime super medicine for general purposes of living.
However it is also true that many advanced Vaisnavas care not for Jyotish. My Guru was one such person. His Guru was another, and so on. The most advanced Vaisnavas in our line tend to leave it away. They are not against it, nor do they say that it does not work, but when one is really secure in devotion and surrender, they care not for prediction at all, nor do they need any help reading others. When you enter into total devotion, the mind and senses become extra aware of the motivations of others, because you yourself have left the arena of worldly based action. Ours Gurus showed this capability and it's well known to be an attribute of saints.
I myself am rather detached from concern over Jyotish. I am interested in it mainly for general personality reading alone and occasionally the dashas and what they give.
For example, normally I just want to know the general person-map the Rasi is giving. This is all I need to get a general idea of what a person is like and how they will probably understand and relate to me and so on. I find this a useful tool in life. The need for dashas arises when there is some strong pain demanding attention- for example, "when will my suffering end" and so on. Then the Jyotishi can, without lyeing, pretending, speculating or misleading, give the person some idea of the clock of their allotted fortunes and misfortunes.
I believe that Jyotish should be learned by the Brahminical, as is exactly said in the beginnings and endings of the best of the classics. I believe they, the real ones, know how to use it and where. I do not think it is meant to be applied much in disturbing anyones life. I think Jyotishis should keep things general and after revealing general information, advise the person to engage in Bhakti. Because true, there is no need for a soul to become petrified about anything, or to get energized to try to work hard to change their karma. That is the Vaisnava thinking.
If someone is attacking in war, we will run or fight. We will not stand there like trees and think "I will or will not be killed, based on predetermined will of God". No, we have to go on acting in life. But that kind of necessary action is different from taking action to change one's perceived and hated karma by yagya and other forms of religious activity. Rather, just be devoted to God in life and expect His mercy but also accept that their will be suffering.
I trust that Jyotish works, that is one of my trusts in God. I trust that God's plan for each person seen in their chart is what they need to learn from. I trust that suffering is a teaching tool used by God to teach us. I trust that He'll be there for His devotees. I trust that there's a happy ending to the long life of the Jiva.
I could go on an on. I guarantee you as far as I am able with my heart and mind and all my honesty, that there is room for using Jyotish in a Vaisnava life, which does not conflict with the path of surrender and devotion, and does not imply going against the feelings of complete trust in God.
I can also say that according to the histories, which I personally believe, Parashara was a Vaisnava as was His son Vyas. Ultimately Vyas wrote the Bhagavatam, which is such a great Vaisnava scripture. Parashara speaks of the Vishnu forms as the ultimate deities of the planets in the BPHS.
Ranjan wrote: Does Lord Krishna ever mention about Jyotish or jyotish-related factors anywhere? What are His instructions regarding Jyotish? Should His followers study it or get involved in jyotish-related activities at all?
Das: To be honest, the inferred instruction is much weightier than the direct on this matter. Allow me to explain: Krishna speaks constantly of the Gunas in the Bhagavad Gita. It is very clear so much so that quotes regarding it would seem redundant- that the living beings are moving under the control of the modes of material nature.
Then, it is implied everywhere in Sastra that the planets portend the fortunes and misfortunes of beings. The Nakshatras and Jyotish are mentioned in the Bhagavatam, as is the Jyotishi.
The point is, if you read Mahabharat, Bhagavatam, Gita, and other Upanishads and so on, you clearly understand that Jyotish is part of the Brahminical sciences, or those things which the Brahmins study and use. You also get a clear picture of how Brahmins and Gurus should act. You further see how sparingly they use their knowledge- only at key moments when it can do good and so on. There is much not said by Brahmins to the other types of persons because of the damage knowledge does when misused.
By the way, by Brahmin I mean exclusively "Brahmin by actual qualifications, regardless of birth status's of any type". I do not mean "modern caste-ism".
It is understood and implied everywhere that the leaders of society should be good hearted and religious persons (Brahmins) and that the Kshatriyas should follow them (administrators/government/military/police etc). It is further implied that Brahmins know how to read the heavens and know who is who. This is referred to everywhere, that they knew, and it is inferred that Parashara knows, and that Vyas knows- this is demonstrated throughout the Mahabharat and Bhagavatam, and in the Bhagavatam, Vyas says that book is his most mature work.
The philosophy of the Bhagavatam goes back and forth between the two perceptions of our reality- namely, the predeterminism of it, and the proper use of free will in surrender and devotion. So the burden of being a brahmin is seeing that people can do little to rise above their assigned karmas, and yet, your duty remains to continue to teach and encourage bhakti nontheless. Other persons do not have this burden. They do not see the truth as clearly as the real seers, who are the real Brahmins.
Krishna says in the Gita that His compiled the Vedas, (implying he directly is Vyasadeva in a sense), that Krishna Himself knows the Vedas, and that by all the Vedas, He is to be known.
So knowing the Vedas is the last stage of progress for the Jiva soul in this realm. After properly knowing the Vedas, one is liberated because one will know Krishna. Jyotish is that disturbing element in our sleep of illusion which comes along and shows us what is really going on here, and has been going on with us for a very long time. It is our portal through the illusion of free will. This helps cause surrender.
The human intellect and heart motivations can rise to a point of wilful feelings which are above and beyond the reach of material nature. The human can perceive intense devotion to God. This is the role of human life in Gods plan. To come to this point. Jyotish is a part of the learning process given in the beginning by God. When a Guru sees a young person is qualified for the final home stretch, many things are taught to them, and Jyotish can certainly be one of them, and it seems to be intended to be such by the creator who also gave it. Proper chanting, Sanskrit, Ayurveda are also good, as are more general trainings such as sadhana, regularity, control, strength, selflessness, service, humility, etc.
Study of the Vedas is recommended by Krishna, yes. The Vedas contain Jyotish as Vedangas. Jyotish is not Vedanta, rather, it is a side science as is medicine. In Vedic understanding, study of Medicine is considered lower than religion and philosophy again because like Jyotish, it is of the existences we experience here directly, and not of the solution to the problem of being here and having to die.
The Muhurtha section of Jyotish can be used by a Vaisnava I suppose, but only if they were doing it in a mood of service- "to increase my service to my Lord, to be better, more efficient and so on, I am moving at the times when the lower Gods are on my side so to speak". This can be done. However, in honest speaking, I think most Vaisnavas would prefer to move in eager service to the Lord, using all their best effort, and just accept the result as His decision. So Muhurtha type uses of Jyotish may or may not appeal to the Vaisnava.
humbly
Raghu
Das Goravani
